Trayvon Martin

[shadowcast]

I think the major thing here Monster is that there's really no reason for us to know anything about Martin b/c these records are both irrelevant and supposed to be protected because he's a minor. So the question needs to be raised why do we know this stuff about him?

Did he post it on social media?

[polaris_x]

There are penalties for calling 911 in non-emergency situations and if Zimmerman had called 40+ times for something the police considered non-emergency situations he surely would have had to at least pay a fine long before he got to the 40th call.

yeah ... that's what i thought ... sorry for derailing ... back to topic ...

[RW81233]

shadow...i think only the vague one about a swing at a bus driver. the other stuff (weed bag, suspension from school) i'm pretty sure they got from someone in the school.

[Monster Rain]

I think the major thing here Monster is that there's really no reason for us to know anything about Martin b/c these records are both irrelevant and supposed to be protected because he's a minor. So the question needs to be raised why do we know this stuff about him?

I agree that his school records never should have been leaked and nothing I've read about them indicates that they were relevent at all. Twitter, however, is not protected that way. Anything you tweet is out there for the world to see and I do think that allegedly swinging at a bus driver is relevent when people say things like they don't believe Zimmerman's version because Martin has no history of violence. There are too many assumptions in statements like that. I just think it's best to withhold judgment of both parties until the full details are known (any eyewitnesses, what the angle of the bullet wound says about the position of the 2 people, etc.). Some people want to assume Martin's guilty based on the leak of Zimmerman's account and that's no better than people jumping to the conclusion that Zimmerman's guilty based on the initial news reports.

[shadowcast]

Great article by Richard Roeper

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html

[Cliffy6745]

I haven't read all of this since I dropped out of the conversation a while ago, but even if Martin did take a swing at Zimmerman after he was followed and, I am sure, aggressively approached by a person who is not the authorities, he has every fucking right to and that doesn't mean you have the right to shoot him. Shit, you are damn fucking right if I were being followed randomly while on my way home from the store and someone in street clothes gets out of the car and comes at me, that I would take a swing in about 2 seconds.

[Jason P]

shadow...i think only the vague one about a swing at a bus driver. the other stuff (weed bag, suspension from school) i'm pretty sure they got from someone in the school.

The TMZ effect.

[RW81233]

Great article by Richard Roeper

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html

even though i remain very skeptical of zimmerman and would like answers this article is a nice find

[norm]

yeah, i really don't understand focusing on what martin did or has done...from what we know, zimmerman instigated all of this...he bears all responsibility for this

[Monster Rain]

yeah, i really don't understand focusing on what martin did or has done...from what we know, zimmerman instigated all of this...he bears all responsibility for this

But we dont' really know that at all. The initial reports indicated that was the case, but other reports contradict that so what makes one version of events more believable than the other besides the fact that we got one version before the other? Zimmerman called 911 and followed him, but we don't actually know if he kept following him or turned around after the 911 Operator told him he shouldn't follow him. If he was walking away and Martin decided to come up from behind and sucker-punch him and try to grab his gun, then it's a completely different story than what was initially reported. There's no reason to rush to judment until we know more.

[mikepegg44]

6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.

if you have a broken nose I don't care how big you are...unless you are trained, and even if you are, you very well may be completely debilitated. I have seen it happen to professional fighters in sparring sessions I was involved in, seen it in fights. it happens. people lose all composure and ability when that nose goes boom. Size really isn't an indicator of what will happen in a fight. Size is an inherent advantage if you can use it, show me this guy has anything but a cursory knowledge of krav maga or some shit like that and I would be shocked if he would have felt compelled to use a gun, so I think we can assume he is untrained...and that size difference is all but nullified if someone's nose is broken.
that is, if his nose was actually broken as i have heard and read...he probably wouldn't have been able to see well, and the amount of blood that comes from a broken nose is staggering...
but that is kind of off topic in a way.

I don't think it is safe to assume anything about what happened. Unfortunately irresponsible behavior by most people involved have created a monster. I just hope we can put this Frankenstein to bed before the villagers step out with pitch forks and string him up, we already are to the point now where a predominately African american organization promotes behavior that they purport to hate when their enemy does it.



sad....the whole thing is maddening and very sad

[RW81233]

6'3" 150 vs. 5'9" 220+? I'm pretty sure even an uncoordinated person with a 70+ lb weight advantage would both be able to withstand fists, and impose will at that point. Unless Trayvon was trained to fight this is literally no contest. Seriously, go try to fight someone with that weight advantage on you. For me I'd have to go find a 260+ lb dude and even if I knew how to throw down I don't see myself winning.

if you have a broken nose I don't care how big you are...unless you are trained, and even if you are, you very well may be completely debilitated. I have seen it happen to professional fighters in sparring sessions I was involved in, seen it in fights. it happens. people lose all composure and ability when that nose goes boom. Size really isn't an indicator of what will happen in a fight. Size is an inherent advantage if you can use it, show me this guy has anything but a cursory knowledge of krav maga or some shit like that and I would be shocked if he would have felt compelled to use a gun, so I think we can assume he is untrained...and that size difference is all but nullified if someone's nose is broken.
that is, if his nose was actually broken as i have heard and read...he probably wouldn't have been able to see well, and the amount of blood that comes from a broken nose is staggering...
but that is kind of off topic in a way.

I don't think it is safe to assume anything about what happened. Unfortunately irresponsible behavior by most people involved have created a monster. I just hope we can put this Frankenstein to bed before the villagers step out with pitch forks and string him up, we already are to the point now where a predominately African american organization promotes behavior that they purport to hate when their enemy does it.



sad....the whole thing is maddening and very sad

yeah i see now...super sad, and things need to be resolved some way

[JonnyPistachio]

Great article by Richard Roeper

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/115 ... facts.html

even though i remain very skeptical of zimmerman and would like answers this article is a nice find

IT was a good article.

"This is what we actually do know. if Zimmerman had been armed with nothing more than, say, a flashlight, mace and communications devices, Martin is still alive today. If Zimmerman had listened to the 911 dispatcher who said Zimmerman didn’t need to pursue Martin, the teenager is still alive today.

There’s no reason to doubt the sincerity of Zimmerman’s friends when they say the man is devastated by the tragic events of Feb. 26. And there’s every reason to advocate that everyone take a deep breath and condemn the vigilante mentality that has “The New Black Panther Party” idiotically placing a $10,000 bounty for the “capture” of a man who is not a fugitive and Louis Farrakhan saying “soon, very soon, the law of retaliation may . . . be applied.”

But I’m still waiting for someone to lay out a chain of events that would justify Zimmerman killing Martin."

******

I'd like to pretend Zimmerman only had a flashlight and his cell that night. He probably would've never even gotten out of his car. He would've been too scared. And even if he did get out of his car and confront Treyvon, he would've simple got his ass kicked.

Zimmerman having a gun was the first problem. his Dirty Harry attitude was the second problem.
Now his problem is the lynch mobs. It is sad all the way around.

[Blockhead]

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

[polaris_x]

I can't help but wonder, why would Zimmerman start a fight when he knew cops were coming on their way within minutes? Because you know... he called 9-11 right before as we all know...

why did he pursue when he was told not to?