Thread wars

[JonnyPistachio]

This thread is gold Jerry, gold!
a band from the AMT, that would be great. See you all in the lounge train car on friday.

[brianlux]

This thread is gold Jerry, gold!
a band from the AMT, that would be great. See you all in the lounge train car on friday.

An AMT band would be fun! But I'll take the Ramones metaphor a step further. At least during it's inception, we'd all start out each number playing a different song and argue until somebody yells ONE-TWO-THREE-FOUR! again.

[hedonist]

I'm guessing "Beat on the Brat" would be totally out of line, then?


Lounge car, Friday!

(Snakeduck is welcome but please keep him away from anything incendiary)

[redrock]

(Snakeduck is welcome but please keep him away from anything incendiary)

Maybe he should be kept behind plexi screen with openings to pass him drinks and converse with him.... Much safer...

[redrock]

I've had friends who put their kids first on their long lists of priorities,

I think a lot of mothers do... until we know better!

[Snakeduck]

(Snakeduck is welcome but please keep him away from anything incendiary)

Maybe he should be kept behind plexi screen with openings to pass him drinks and converse with him.... Much safer...

My old band used to play this meth-head bar called the "Monkey Bizness" and it had real life monkeys confined exactly as you describe. Those poor animals were subjected to a cloud of cigarette smoke and obnoxious metal music each and every day of their wretched little lives. Felt so bad for them, but they must have died or escaped or the health deptarment finally said no deal as they were eventually replaced with stuffed toy monkeys.

Just be careful when you reach in my cage as I am hell on small digit manipulation. All I need is one finger... I also bite.

[redrock]

....and it had real life monkeys confined exactly as you describe. Those poor animals were subjected to a cloud of cigarette smoke and obnoxious metal music each and every day of their wretched little lives. .

That's shit.

[hedonist]

My old band used to play this meth-head bar called the "Monkey Bizness" and it had real life monkeys confined exactly as you describe. Those poor animals were subjected to a cloud of cigarette smoke and obnoxious metal music each and every day of their wretched little lives. Felt so bad for them, but they must have died or escaped or the health deptarment finally said no deal as they were eventually replaced with stuffed toy monkeys.

Just be careful when you reach in my cage as I am hell on small digit manipulation. All I need is one finger... I also bite.

Oh man, that's heartbreaking. I love and respect monkeys and apes - can be amazingly fierce but tender to the point of awe.

I and my small digits shall keep away from your cage, sir!

[riotgrl]

I like to think we are a community here. Certainly, we all love PJ or we wouldn't even be here and isn't that how communities form - through common connections. I would certainly help anyone here regardless of difference of opinion. I believe that a strong sense of community is vital and is very much missing in our society. We seem to believe that taking care of number 1 is the best way to achieve our goals when I wonder if we wouldn't achieve higher individual and group goals by looking out for the other guy first instead. I don't know - I'm still working out these thoughts about community after all my reading this summer!

Thoughtful post.

But, I don't believe that looking after oneself first (barring those closest to us) equates to not caring about or not being willing to help others.

I could swear I've read this analogy here before and if so, apologies for the repetitiveness, but it's sort of like the oxygen mask that drops when you're on a plane. Use it first, then you can take care of others.

I agree. How can we take care of others if we're not taking care of ourselves first? We have to be healthy in order to care for others. I've had friends who put their kids first on their long lists of priorities, but they got so run down and sick from not ensuring their own health that they would collapse, which in effect hurt the kids. Same with a job: without healthy and rested employees, the company will feel the strain from the mistakes made, the time off for sickness, etc, etc.

I agree with both of you - I was not expressing myself very well I'm in a situation at work where there is NO teamwork - very dog eat dog which, to me, is strange as I am a teacher, and it seems that should be very cooperative and very teamwork oriented. I don't understand people who manipulate to get ahead, to achieve ONLY their own goals. You have to care for yourself and those you are closest to first but what about helping others? working together? working as a team? I've read alot of Daniel Quinn and Jared Diamond this summer and have spent time looking at communal living of early man and just read that perception into brianlux's initial post.

[hedonist]

I agree with both of you - I was not expressing myself very well I'm in a situation at work where there is NO teamwork - very dog eat dog which, to me, is strange as I am a teacher, and it seems that should be very cooperative and very teamwork oriented. I don't understand people who manipulate to get ahead, to achieve ONLY their own goals. You have to care for yourself and those you are closest to first but what about helping others? working together? working as a team? I've read alot of Daniel Quinn and Jared Diamond this summer and have spent time looking at communal living of early man and just read that perception into brianlux's initial post.

I get where you're coming from (and from what I've seen, you typically express yourself quite well).

I'm fortunately not in a position to have to be around the "me, at the expense of everyone else" mentalities (I've been, and they suck - as in the life out of you).

You sound like you're hanging in there pretty OK

Love Quinn! He's good for the soul and mind.

[brianlux]

I've read alot of Daniel Quinn and Jared Diamond this summer and have spent time looking at communal living of early man and just read that perception into brianlux's initial post.

This reminds of the attempts and pseudo-attempts by several groups of people to form co-operatives and communes in the sixties and seventies. Most of them failed, of course, but I wonder if that was because most were started by younger people who didn't have enough practical life experience to make better plans. I looked into the idea myself back then but knew enough to know I didn't know enough to make it happen. The problem is, now that I'm older, I have much more life experience but don't have enough of that youthful energy.

I had my business in a book co-op from 2007 through 2011 that was a microcosm of the communal experience. It was a rewarding experience in many ways but very difficult. There was a lot of in-fighting and so much competition that I began to refer to it as a "competitive" as opposed to a "cooperative". My peace keeping efforts often made little if any difference. I think what it boils down to is that in our culture it is very hard for us to be co-operative when we are used to being competitive. It's interesting because I did quite well with my business in the co-op and that led to some members hinting at the idea that it was easy for me to talk about being cooperative when I was doing so well. But I did well because I kept my book selection strong in sections that were weak within the general co-op rather than, as many others did, compete strongly within the same categories. I kept saying, "Lets all pick a few categories that we like that are different from each others' and keep them strong so that the co-op as a whole will thrive." But people would say, "I'm not going to be limited in what I can sell or have anybody dictate to me what I can or can't do." And I'd think, "We'll, OK, so why are you in a co-op?"

It really made me wonder about our chances (in this culture at this time at least) of learning how to cooperate. I think it has to start in childhood.

[riotgrl]

I agree with both of you - I was not expressing myself very well I'm in a situation at work where there is NO teamwork - very dog eat dog which, to me, is strange as I am a teacher, and it seems that should be very cooperative and very teamwork oriented. I don't understand people who manipulate to get ahead, to achieve ONLY their own goals. You have to care for yourself and those you are closest to first but what about helping others? working together? working as a team? I've read alot of Daniel Quinn and Jared Diamond this summer and have spent time looking at communal living of early man and just read that perception into brianlux's initial post.

I get where you're coming from (and from what I've seen, you typically express yourself quite well).

I'm fortunately not in a position to have to be around the "me, at the expense of everyone else" mentalities (I've been, and they suck - as in the life out of you).

You sound like you're hanging in there pretty OK

Love Quinn! He's good for the soul and mind.

Thank you for the kind words! Luckily, I hang in there OK - teachers seem to enjoy beating their head against the wall every day which makes it a bit easier

And yes, Quinn is good for the soul and mind. It has been an enjoyable summer of reading

[riotgrl]

This reminds of the attempts and pseudo-attempts by several groups of people to form co-operatives and communes in the sixties and seventies. Most of them failed, of course, but I wonder if that was because most were started by younger people who didn't have enough practical life experience to make better plans. I looked into the idea myself back then but knew enough to know I didn't know enough to make it happen. The problem is, now that I'm older, I have much more life experience but don't have enough of that youthful energy.

My brother has also read Quinn and we discussed the idea of communal living. Did you know there is a successful commune in Missouri called Dancing Rabbit? Very interesting idea - my husband thought I'd gone completely around the bend when I mentioned it But I do like the idea - I'm struggling right now with how to live in THIS world but incorporate some of those cooperative communal ideals on a smaller scale.

I had my business in a book co-op from 2007 through 2011 that was a microcosm of the communal experience. It was a rewarding experience in many ways but very difficult. There was a lot of in-fighting and so much competition that I began to refer to it as a "competitive" as opposed to a "cooperative". My peace keeping efforts often made little if any difference. I think what it boils down to is that in our culture it is very hard for us to be co-operative when we are used to being competitive. It's interesting because I did quite well with my business in the co-op and that led to some members hinting at the idea that it was easy for me to talk about being cooperative when I was doing so well. But I did well because I kept my book selection strong in sections that were weak within the general co-op rather than, as many others did, compete strongly within the same categories. I kept saying, "Lets all pick a few categories that we like that are different from each others' and keep them strong so that the co-op as a whole will thrive." But people would say, "I'm not going to be limited in what I can sell or have anybody dictate to me what I can or can't do." And I'd think, "We'll, OK, so why are you in a co-op?"

Now that sounds like something I would love to do! How does a book co-op work exactly? I don't think I will be able to teach for another 15 years the way our educational system is going right now and I keep looking for a long term plan to start moving away from teaching but there is NO way I can go back to the corporate world. But I do understand people preferring to be competitive rather than cooperative. I work with a girl that seems, on the surface, to very much want to be cooperative but she is sneaky and undermines her very own efforts to be cooperative all so she can get the credit or to advance her own career. I guess as I get older, I would rather see my efforts be a part of something bigger than me - I don't need to have all the credit (although, I am still interested in having some credit - that competitive streak is very strong still).

[know1]

Regarding the OP, I say absolutely agree. We should all look out for each other.

The only entity that I don't want to help anymore than I'm forced to is the government.

[cincybearcat]

This thread is gold Jerry, gold!
a band from the AMT, that would be great. See you all in the lounge train car on friday.

Ummm, it would be the most dysfunctional band ever. Just imagine Courtney Love, Axl Rose, Lars, and Billy Corgan......