Obamacare has peeps tweeting about escape...to Canada

[EdsonNascimento]

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

[AlbertaGirl70_]

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

[ComeToTX]

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

Hard to argue with that example.

It boils down to everyone should receive the same quality of care regardless of how much money they have. I'm not sure how people argue with this. We're not talking about the size of a house we're talking about the health of our citizens.

[fife]

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm...

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

just to say about that stat that you wrote about the ave. debt for medical treatment.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 666715.htm

[dignin]

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

So what you are saying is that US healthcare is non profit? Also, you assume wrong, Canadians crossing the border for treatment go mostly for faster treatment, not better treatment.

[PJ_Soul]

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

Exactly.
Canada's system may have some longer waiting lists for certain procedures (not that I've ever seen it. In the past 2 years, I had to get a bone scan, ultrasound, and a CT, and I never waited longer than 6 days), but NO ONE is ever denied life saving care because they can't afford it. IMO, having that EVER happen to anyone means there is something seriously disgusting and perverse about a health care system. Period. Frankly, I think when someone suggests that a system where health care is a profit business where poor people can't get the care they need while people with money buy it either has their head buried in the sand or just doesn't give a shit that people without money can't always get the health care they need to save their lives.... But I'd be interested to see how they would feel once they are the ones who get seriously ill and are suddenly told that they insurance company has figured a way to ensure that it will cost them $80,000 to not die. People would rather pay less tax than live with a system like that? Not me.
Glad you made it AlbertaGirl70. And I'm glad you didn't make yourself and your whole family go broke in the process.

[PJ_Soul]

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

I think you're in denial.

[gimmesometruth27]

something is fundamentally wrong when a cancer medication is over $50,000 per single treatment. some people blame the supply. well why won't the manufacturer make more?? if their motivation is simply greed, then there needs to be serious penalties for that.

also, private insurance is in the business of making profits. why else would they deny coverage to high risk patients or those with pre-existing conditions? or why would people with pre-existing conditions or those considered "high risk" get "rated", where they have to pay sky high premiums compared with healthy people in the same age group?

also, people in america like to have the "freedom" of health insurance not dictating their care. i can tell you that insurance dictates care every fucking day in this country. we write prescriptions every day because that med is the best option for certain patients and insurance companies deny them all of the time. they will cover cheeper alternatives and generics, but if there is a name brand drug that has no generic, your insurance is going to deny that drug or pay a very very miniscule percentage on it until that patent runs out and generics become available. insurance companies also deny diagnostic testing every single day. i help to schedule mris, ct scans, doppler tests, dexa scans, bone scans, etc every day, and they always deny certain tests until other ones are done. ie. if a patient comes in with bilateral shin pain and we are assuming bilateral tibial stress fractures and we write an order for a spect scan which is going to show both legs and the metabolic activity in bones in each one, the insuance company is going to try to steer us towards 2 mris, which are hugely expensive compared to spect scans. if you use clinical reasoning, why would a doctor order 2 mris at 3 times the expense to the insurance company when he can get the same information from a single test? or, why would the doctor not just order one mri of the leg with the worst symptoms? if that one mri comes back positive for stress fracture, then you know they have one so you will assume that the other one has one too so you treat it the same way, as if they had bilateral stress fractures. then there is the whole peer to peer review process. sometimes tests are delayed days because the insurance company doctor has to call my doctor i work for and discuss the case and the need for further testing. we have never gotten one denied in the 5.5 years i have worked there, and we can not call the insurance co MD, we are on call waiting for them to call us, all while the patient is waiting to proceed with further evaluation.

we do not have freedom in this country, and insurance companies do dictate care. why won't insurance companies let the doctor's do their jobs instead of getting in the way??? we call it getting cockblocked by your own insurance...

[PJ_Soul]

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

So what you are saying is that US healthcare is non profit? Also, you assume wrong, Canadians crossing the border for treatment go mostly for faster treatment, not better treatment.

Right... and only people with money do it, obviously. People who don't want to wait 6 months for a joint replacement or whatever, and have money to spare. Either that, or go to see specialists for optional treatments that just aren't in Canada because of our small population. The actual quality of care in Canada is very good. Have no idea where Edson got this idea about "low outcomes".

PS - I'm not saying any of this to say "my health care system is better than your health care system". I think about it a lot because I genuinely give a shit that Americans are being denied the right to life saving care because of their socio-economic status. With Canada's god-awful conservative government, I'm terrified that such attitudes found in support of the US system will leak over the border and into the twisted brains of our own "Harper Government".

[EdsonNascimento]

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm...

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

just to say about that stat that you wrote about the ave. debt for medical treatment.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 666715.htm

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/you ... -1.3818935

[fife]

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm...

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

just to say about that stat that you wrote about the ave. debt for medical treatment.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 666715.htm

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/oped/you ... -1.3818935

thanks for the article but i have to admit that the lack of citing any research on how the writer got to the point of the 1000 in medical bills alarms me.

If you look at the article that I had posted there seem to be more detail than this article.

If you can find some research pieces that show the same view that was written in this opinion piece that would be great.

[know1]

I just can't wrap my mind around how our government thinks that a solution to the health insurance problem is to REQUIRE people to purchase private health insurance. It's just not fathomable to me.

That being said, I'm not near desperate enough to consider a move to Canada.

[fife]

I just can't wrap my mind around how our government thinks that a solution to the health insurance problem is to REQUIRE people to purchase private health insurance. It's just not fathomable to me.

That being said, I'm not near desperate enough to consider a move to Canada.

actually i think your government is thinking that the issue is not the health insurance but health care.

[PJ_Soul]

I just can't wrap my mind around how our government thinks that a solution to the health insurance problem is to REQUIRE people to purchase private health insurance. It's just not fathomable to me.

That being said, I'm not near desperate enough to consider a move to Canada.

I think the problem lies in the fact that basic health insurance is private at all. Basic full health care coverage (as opposed to added extended health care insurance, which is what gives discounts on prescriptions, physio, etc etc) should be a public entity that everyone must have, and which is completely equal coverage for everyone no matter their age, lifestyle, or preexisting conditions.

And here is a link to another thread here, where we can see what the current US system can do to people.... In Canada, money would not be any concern to this 10C member at all, he would never have had to worry about lawyers, etc like this, even with a WCB claim, and that's the way it should be.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=192176

[FrankieG]

2) Anyone that disagrees with liberals is uninformed (The Daily Show is an impartial news source!!! ).


Exibit "A" you are part of the problem

The daily show is the only REAL news program in the states. And its SATIRE, What does that tell you???

The Daily Show is pretty much where i get my news. Its really the best way because it tries to make fun of every situation and brings to light the dumbass politicians that don't think straight.