Trayvon Martin

[polaris_x]

Oh bullshit. Jumping to conclusions is bad, whether it be saying it definitely isn't or definitely is a race crime. Just seems like in this case the guy who did the shooting may have been looking to kill a criminal. I'm not yet sure if black=criminal to him or not. That is what I'm saying.

you can't fix it unless you acknowledge it exists ...

these are the facts:

* unarmed young black male gets accosted by an armed white neighbourhood watch guy who was explicitly told to avoid confrontation

* unarmed young black male is shot dead

* guy who shoots young black male is NOT ARRESTED

* police quickly claim the guy shot in self-defense despite knowing that he was told not to engage

racism abounds ... from the guy who shot the victim to the police force quickly trying to protect this guy ... you want to say there isn't any ... fine ... defend the police force and the guy who shot ... i'm gonna speculate on what i know ...

[polaris_x]

no it's over thinking and people like you that help to keep racism alive, the only crimes you guys care to talk about are crimes and or selfdefense aginst blacks but we never discuss the possibality of racism when a black attacks a white because they're white or attacks on brown people by blacks, you are to eager to play into the hands of racism even in a "what if" situation, you are to quick to jump my friend and that makes me wonder what your real interest are every time you make a post about racism on this forum.

Godfather.

feel free to post an article on black on white racism and if there are aspects it was racially motivated - i will be more than happy to make the same accusations ...

i said racism is alive and well in america ... i didn't say only racism against blacks ... but feel free to believe whatever you want to believe that allows you to sleep at night ... it's not my concern ...

[cincybearcat]

i wonder why he said
"he has his hand in his waistband and he's a black male"

and he's a black male??

Where is that? That would certainly be some evidence towards some racial bias.

I guess if someone is going to claim racism they should provide some evidence, that's what I am saying.

listen to the shooter's 911 call. the shooter says it to the dispatcher.

I will try, couldn't yesterday.

Polaris - It is very clear that racism exists on many different levels all over the world, and this certainly includes every area of the USA. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I've buried my head in the sand or think it is such a small problem. In some cases, I think when people jump to conclusions about racism, etc (words, used, etc) it hampers the dialogue and that is a bad thing.

I will say my post back to you was not as effective as it could have been. I should have merely asked you what your proof was that this was clearly racist in nature. I certainly did not help create a conversation with my tone.

[cincybearcat]

Oh bullshit. Jumping to conclusions is bad, whether it be saying it definitely isn't or definitely is a race crime. Just seems like in this case the guy who did the shooting may have been looking to kill a criminal. I'm not yet sure if black=criminal to him or not. That is what I'm saying.

you can't fix it unless you acknowledge it exists ...

these are the facts:

* unarmed young black male gets accosted by an armed white neighbourhood watch guy who was explicitly told to avoid confrontation

* unarmed young black male is shot dead

* guy who shoots young black male is NOT ARRESTED

* police quickly claim the guy shot in self-defense despite knowing that he was told not to engage

racism abounds ... from the guy who shot the victim to the police force quickly trying to protect this guy ... you want to say there isn't any ... fine ... defend the police force and the guy who shot ... i'm gonna speculate on what i know ...

Again, I never said race wasn't part of this equation. I just said based upon the 1st article posted that saying it was "clearly" racism was premature.

[polaris_x]

Polaris - It is very clear that racism exists on many different levels all over the world, and this certainly includes every area of the USA. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I've buried my head in the sand or think it is such a small problem. In some cases, I think when people jump to conclusions about racism, etc (words, used, etc) it hampers the dialogue and that is a bad thing.

I will say my post back to you was not as effective as it could have been. I should have merely asked you what your proof was that this was clearly racist in nature. I certainly did not help create a conversation with my tone.

i hear ya ... but on the same token - why are you so quick to deny racism?

[USARAY]

he was not arrested immediately cause it was Neighborhood Watch
he shot because he is an idiot with too much power playing enforcer
not as much of a case of racism more a case of just plain old ignorance

[cincybearcat]

Polaris - It is very clear that racism exists on many different levels all over the world, and this certainly includes every area of the USA. I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that I've buried my head in the sand or think it is such a small problem. In some cases, I think when people jump to conclusions about racism, etc (words, used, etc) it hampers the dialogue and that is a bad thing.

I will say my post back to you was not as effective as it could have been. I should have merely asked you what your proof was that this was clearly racist in nature. I certainly did not help create a conversation with my tone.

i hear ya ... but on the same token - why are you so quick to deny racism?

Well, I don't think I was denying racism, but I get your point. And you are correct. My post to you should have been to ask you to clarify exactly why you thought that. I didn't do that. Your point is taken.

[gimmesometruth27]

for folks to quickly dismiss the issue of race in this matter is befuddling to me...

anyway, glad to see this will be investigated further...

it's like i said ... many people want to believe that racism isn't as prevalent as it is ... and their first reaction to accusations of racism is to get defensive about it ... which is partly why it still exists ...

no it's over thinking and people like you that help to keep racism alive, the only crimes you guys care to talk about are crimes and or selfdefense aginst blacks but we never discuss the possibality of racism when a black attacks a white because they're white or attacks on brown people by blacks, you are to eager to play into the hands of racism even in a "what if" situation, you are to quick to jump my friend and that makes me wonder what your real interest are every time you make a post about racism on this forum.

Godfather.

how can someone armed with a gun claim self defense when the person who is allegedly attacking him is armed with $22, a packet of ice tea, and a bag of skittles??

[cincybearcat]

it's like i said ... many people want to believe that racism isn't as prevalent as it is ... and their first reaction to accusations of racism is to get defensive about it ... which is partly why it still exists ...

no it's over thinking and people like you that help to keep racism alive, the only crimes you guys care to talk about are crimes and or selfdefense aginst blacks but we never discuss the possibality of racism when a black attacks a white because they're white or attacks on brown people by blacks, you are to eager to play into the hands of racism even in a "what if" situation, you are to quick to jump my friend and that makes me wonder what your real interest are every time you make a post about racism on this forum.

Godfather.

how can someone armed with a gun claim self defense when the person who is allegedly attacking him is armed with $22, a packet of ice tea, and a bag of skittles??

Well, I'm sure you know people can actually use their fists, no? Not saying this is the case in this situation, I don't know, but to dismiss it as a possibility would be silly as people beat the hell out of other people everyday with their fists.

[gimmesometruth27]

Well, I'm sure you know people can actually use their fists, no? Not saying this is the case in this situation, I don't know, but to dismiss it as a possibility would be silly as people beat the hell out of other people everyday with their fists.

so a 17 year old kid is going to batter a 28 year old man? the man hunted him down and confronted him. if ANYONE has the right to claim self defense and punch someone to defend himself, it is trayvon martin. he was hunted down.

this is the difference between hunting animals and hunting people. sometimes people punch back...

[polaris_x]

Well, I'm sure you know people can actually use their fists, no? Not saying this is the case in this situation, I don't know, but to dismiss it as a possibility would be silly as people beat the hell out of other people everyday with their fists.

sooo ... the guy with the gun needs to kill someone who is by all accounts crying for help ...

[DriftingByTheStorm]

The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.

Try and listen to that without getting queasy.
The entire time this woman is reporting this mess to the 911 Dispatcher, all you can hear in the background, over and over, for almost a minute, is this poor 17 year old, who was "armed" with an iced tea, a bag of skittles, and a cell phone, ***screaming for his life, at the top of his lungs*** ... then you hear one big bang, and then that eerie silence.

This shit REALLY gets to me. Like gets me teary, even, at the sheer massive stupidity\ignorance involved here on the Neighborhood Watchman's side of the equation. The fact that this kid was killed is bad enough. The fact that it sounds like he was dehumanized to the primal level of an animal in terror, is what makes me cringe, though.

Self defense, my fucking ass.

[Godfather.]

Well, I'm sure you know people can actually use their fists, no? Not saying this is the case in this situation, I don't know, but to dismiss it as a possibility would be silly as people beat the hell out of other people everyday with their fists.

so a 17 year old kid is going to batter a 28 year old man? the man hunted him down and confronted him. if ANYONE has the right to claim self defense and punch someone to defend himself, it is trayvon martin. he was hunted down.

this is the difference between hunting animals and hunting people. sometimes people punch back...

as bad as it sounds man we don't know that for sure,wrong or wright on whos part we may never know.
I think the renta cop may have seen too many dirty harry movies but I also think one possibality is that his shot or shots were or may have been triggered by fear and finding out he just killed a unarmed young man may have toasted his mind for life,I don't think he set out to kill a "black man" or anybody else for that mattter but one thing is for sure..he did and his life will never be the same, if he is founf guilty I hope he pays for his crime,we'll just have to wait and see.

Godfather.

[cincybearcat]

Well, I'm sure you know people can actually use their fists, no? Not saying this is the case in this situation, I don't know, but to dismiss it as a possibility would be silly as people beat the hell out of other people everyday with their fists.

sooo ... the guy with the gun needs to kill someone who is by all accounts crying for help ...

Did I say that? If so, please quote it for me, because I can't see it.

What I said is that people can be defending themselves against an unarmed attacker. So, that's how it could be self-defense. Doesn't seem likely in this case though.

[g under p]

The recording of the 911 Call from the "witness" who did not want to go out side is enough to make me sick. And it DEFINITELY should be enough to put this loathable night watchman behind bars for murder.

Try and listen to that without getting queasy.
The entire time this woman is reporting this mess to the 911 Dispatcher, all you can hear in the background, over and over, for almost a minute, is this poor 17 year old, who was "armed" with an iced tea, a bag of skittles, and a cell phone, ***screaming for his life, at the top of his lungs*** ... then you hear one big bang, and then that eerie silence.

This shit REALLY gets to me. Like gets me teary, even, at the sheer massive stupidity\ignorance involved here on the Neighborhood Watchman's side of the equation. The fact that this kid was killed is bad enough. The fact that it sounds like he was dehumanized to the primal level of an animal in terror, is what makes me cringe, though.

Self defense, my fucking ass.

Don't you worry many will hear these tapes and will have a change of mind for sure. At the very least he should be charged for manslaughter...this is just another senseless crime with a gun in America.

Peace