The State of "Palestine" Quiz

[catefrances]

Regarding ANZAC...when I was travelling through Turkey a few years back I was really surprised that everywhere I went the guest books were full of notes from Australians. I couldn't figure out why (I knew about Gallipoli, but didn't put two and two together). Finally I asked the proprietor at one of the hostels I was staying at, and he explained. He said that a lot of Australians, more than just coming as tourists with a particular historical connection to the place, come to Turkey to visit the graves of familial ancestors who died at Gallipoli. Don't know how accurate that actually is, but I found it moving.

its absolutely accurate. i have an uncle who lost his life at gallipoli and is buried there.

[catefrances]

And what history would that be? A jewish homeland refers to a religious group, they are not a biological group. There is interbreeding and jews who historically were not jews, and presently non-jews who historically were jewish. Given that, Shlomo Sand, a professor at Tel Aviv University, and self-indentified zionist in his book, "The Invention of the Jewish People," there is way too much to write here on the subject, but the jist is that those who practice the jewish religion (and those that don't but are still jewish wink wink, can't leave them out, they are jewish when it comes to a homeland, but a sausage mcmuffin...not so much) that outside of a small presence, have no proven history in Palestine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/ja ... ael-jewish

we are ALL invented peoples. its how our identities were formed.. its how cohesion within a society is formed. someone telling me that jews are an invented people or that the palestinians are an invented people doesnt hold any weight with me in an argument about who does and who doesnt 'belong' somewhere. this land we argue about is both theirs land and some way has to figured out where it can be shared cause thats the only way this will end somewhat peacefully. unfortunately politicans are arsehats and without massive pressure from both the israeli and the palestinian people for their leaders to do the right thing by them and future generations nothing will be accomplished. im with yosi.. why concentrate on streets being named after suicide bombers and the ensuing hoohah it causes when we all know its just an act of provocation. in the big scheme of things it is irrelevant. but it sure does feed the hate doesnt it?

[Pepe Silvia]

isn't it odd these christians dislike muslims yet love jews? i mean muslims believe in jesus, the koran calls him a prophet of god and yet the jews deny jesus and even helped kill him and the bible says god let the babylonians destroy the kingdom of israel because they were unfaithful

The major theme of the Bible's narrative is the loyalty of Judah, and especially its kings, to "Yahweh", the God of Israel. According to the Bible, all the kings of Israel and almost all the kings of Judah were "bad", which in terms of Biblical narrative means that they failed to enforce worship of Yahweh alone. Of the "good" kings, Hezekiah (727–698 BCE) is noted for his efforts at stamping out idolatry (in this case, the worship of Baal and Asherah, among other traditional Near Eastern divinities),[4] but his successors, Manasseh of Judah (698–642 BCE) and Amon (642–640 BCE), revived idolatry, drawing down on the kingdom the anger of Yahweh. King Josiah (640–609 BCE) returned to the worship of Yahweh alone, but his efforts were too late and Israel's unfaithfulness caused God to permit the kingdom's destruction by the Babylonians in c.587/586 BCE.

and let's not forget how quickly they turned to worshiping a golden calf when moses went up the mountain.....

[catefrances]

isn't it odd these christians dislike muslims yet love jews? i mean muslims believe in jesus, the koran calls him a prophet of god and yet the jews deny jesus and even helped kill him and the bible says god let the babylonians destroy the kingdom of israel because they were unfaithful....

not all that odd.

God let israel be destroyed cause they were unfaithful to Him. why should he have saved them when they had abandoned him?

[Pepe Silvia]

they may be god's chosen people but chosen for what?

[Jason P]

isn't it odd these christians dislike muslims yet love jews? i mean muslims believe in jesus, the koran calls him a prophet of god and yet the jews deny jesus and even helped kill him and the bible says god let the babylonians destroy the kingdom of israel because they were unfaithful

If my history is correct, I don't think the jews have seen much support from anyone throughout the ages.

[catefrances]

isn't it odd these christians dislike muslims yet love jews? i mean muslims believe in jesus, the koran calls him a prophet of god and yet the jews deny jesus and even helped kill him and the bible says god let the babylonians destroy the kingdom of israel because they were unfaithful

If my history is correct, I don't think the jews have seen much support from anyone throughout the ages.

no... but they sure as hell have been the scapegoat for much.

and i think in a weird way it is because of that that some seem to hold them up higher morality wise. i know ive been guilty of wondering why after all their people have been through do the israeli govt treat the palestinians the way they do.

[Byrnzie]

You didn't look very hard. In the NY Times for April 12, 2002, Serge Schemann reported as follows:

"The Israeli police said today that they had found a belt with explosives in a Palestinian ambulance during a check at a roadblock inside the West Bank. The ambulance was headed toward Israel with the body of a Palestinian man, the police said, and they found the device alongside him. It was the second time in two weeks that Israel has reported finding explosives in an ambulance."

In an opinion piece (which I assume was fact-checked) published by the NY Times on April 13, 2002, Daniel Gordis wrote the following:

"Two weeks ago Israeli soldiers stopped a Palestinian ambulance with a child in the back on a stretcher, and under him soldiers found an explosive belt."

Showing that use of ambulances to aid terror actually goes back quite a bit further than the early 2000's, the NY Times published a report by Youssef M. Ibrahim on December 14, 1993, in which Mr. Ibrahim reported that:

"Early this morning a Islamic guerrilla drove an ambulance loaded with explosives into an Israeli Army jeep, killing himself and wounding an Israeli soldier."

Steven Erlanger, in a very interesting piece about the laws of war and IDF actions in Gaza, published on January 16th, 2009, reported the comments of an IDF major as follows:

"Hamas has misused ambulances and Red Crescent and United Nations symbols in the past and is doing so during this conflict, Major Lerner charged.

“We’ve had gunmen coming out of ambulances and taking up positions here in the last week; my people saw it,” he said. “So of course this makes the troops in the field very wary about any vehicles approaching them, and why coordination has to be from the top to the very bottom, all the way down the line to the unit in the field.”"

I'm sure I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Take it up with the NY Times.

Norman Finkelstein - 'Beyond Chutzpah: On The Misuse of Anti-Semitism and the Abuse of History'.


P.129: 'Terror Ambulances'

'...To document that Palestinian "ambulances are often used to transport explosives and suicide bombers"...Dershowitz cites only the uncorroborated allegation of an Israeli "senior security official" (Greg Myre, "The Mideast Turmoil: Security," New York Times, 21st May 2002). A November 2002 Physicians for Human Rights-Israel study concluded: "Israel has provided evidence of such abuse in one single case." Even this one single instance lacks certainty. Referring to that same "one, widely publicized occasion when, on 27 March 2002, a suicide belt was found on an ambulance," Amnesty International wrote:

'There are several suspicious circumstances about it. The ambulance passed through four checkpoints on the way to Jerusalem without being searched (which is abnormal) and then was delayed for more than an hour before being searched to allow T.V cameras to arrive (which suggests that the IDF had, at the least, prior knowledge of something hidden there).'

Apart from the alleged March 2002 incident, the only documented misuses of an ambulance were committed by Israel. For example, "soldiers were crammed into a bullet-proof ambulance in order to get as quickly as possible to the house" of a wanted Palestinian; "IDF soldiers in Nablus forced several ambulance drivers to stop, get out of their ambulances, and stand between the soldiers and stone throwers"; "soldiers took control of an ambulance and used it to block entry to the hospital in Tulkarm." B'Tselem comments on these incidents and Israeli allegations:

'The IDF's use of ambulances for military purposes is especially disturbing in light of the repeated claims made by the IDF that Palestinians use ambulances to transport weapons and explosives....It should be noted that, with the exception of one case, and despite repeated requests by Physicians for Human Rights and the International Red Cross, the IDF has not presented any evidence to support this contention, not even in response to petitions filed in the Supreme Court.'

And again: "Official [Israeli] sources repeatedly state the claim that Palestinians use ambulances to transport weapons and explosives without providing proof of this claim." Finally, it bears emphasizing that Israel already targeted Palestinian ambulances long before the alleged March 2002 incident [...]and even if the March 2002 incident did happen, it cannot justify deliberate attacks on an entire network of ambulances performing their medical function and enjoying legal protection" (PHR-Israel).

[catefrances]

they may be god's chosen people but chosen for what?

to carry the burden of the righteous? whats that saying.... God never sends us more than we can handle? so im thinking(someone correct if im wrong) that if the jews can withstand all that is thrown at them and do so with dignity then they will be rewarded. with what im not so sure on.. maybe a laurel wreath and a hearty handshake. *shrugs*

[Byrnzie]

Care to reply to my previous post Yosi?

[yosi]

I don't see that there's anything to reply to.

[usamamasan1]

Israel may destroy the homes of jailed Palestinian terrorists. The country’s domestic security agency has suggested razing two houses to deter other Palestinians from violence – a move supported by Defense Minister Ehud Barak.



In 2011, two cousins, Hakim and Ajmad Awad of the Palestinian town of Awarta, were found guilty of murdering an Israeli family. A few months prior they had attacked the home of Israeli couple Udi Fogel, 36 andRuth Fogel, 35, in the northern West Bank town of Itamar.
They killed them along with their three children: the two kids aged 11 and four were stabbed to death as well as the third victim – a three-month-old baby girl. Three other children were not discovered by the murderers, thus being orphaned by the massacre.
The men are serving five life sentences for the crime. During the court proceedings, both called what they had done a “deed committed for Palestine’s liberation” and said they are proud of it.

I guess there is some legal stuff to deal with but damn, proud killers they are. Razing homes won't stop violence but it's a nice "fuck you" to the evil-do'ers!

[gimmesometruth27]

Israel may destroy the homes of jailed Palestinian terrorists. The country’s domestic security agency has suggested razing two houses to deter other Palestinians from violence – a move supported by Defense Minister Ehud Barak.



In 2011, two cousins, Hakim and Ajmad Awad of the Palestinian town of Awarta, were found guilty of murdering an Israeli family. A few months prior they had attacked the home of Israeli couple Udi Fogel, 36 andRuth Fogel, 35, in the northern West Bank town of Itamar.
They killed them along with their three children: the two kids aged 11 and four were stabbed to death as well as the third victim – a three-month-old baby girl. Three other children were not discovered by the murderers, thus being orphaned by the massacre.
The men are serving five life sentences for the crime. During the court proceedings, both called what they had done a “deed committed for Palestine’s liberation” and said they are proud of it.

I guess there is some legal stuff to deal with but damn, proud killers they are. Razing homes won't stop violence but it's a nice "fuck you" to the evil-do'ers!

what is the fucking difference when they raze the homes of innocent palestinians every day?? the israeli government is filled with evildoers.

[yosi]

It's a "fuck you" to their families, who didn't do the crime. I was in Israel when the Fogels were murdered. Their murderers should rot in prison for the rest of eternity. Their families should be left alone.

[Byrnzie]

I don't see that there's anything to reply to.

Of course you don't.