Forced ultrasound = state-sanctioned rape

[inlet13]

I call bullshit on that story.

Of course you do.

Suicide rates are not in any way indicative of whether a fetus would have chosen to be born.

Of course. They are just a reliable current, real-life statistic of the average person's desire to not live.



Anyway, I'm done for the night. Enjoy.

[cincybearcat]

You two should really get a room.

[_]

Yeah, I work in statistics too - reproductive health statistics specifically. So I know exactly what each of the Guttmacher stats say & have read every study from which they came. You can argue about "typical" vs "in the month" all day & it won't matter because the study talks about both (and I never said anything to the contrary). (It would be of great benefit to you & your wife, however, for you to develop an understanding of the difference between typical & perfect contraceptive use.)

It does matter. The source specifically states the number refers to those who have used either form (pill or condoms) in the last month, then goes on to break it down further when discussing those who used it regularly/properly, etc.

What I can't understand is how a man who works in statistics can say that the second stat proves that a large number of women get more than one abortion. In fact, it gives no indication whatsoever about how many women get more than one abortion.

The stat says that 47% of women having an abortion, have had a previous abortion. Clearly, that indicates that there's a good portion of the abortion community who have at least two abortions. Do you not understand that?

And the third statistic is not a counterfactual. (From where on earth did you even get that?) It's very easy to know how many abortions women have when they use abortion as birth control for two reasons: 1. There have been millions of women - on whom data has been collected - who actually do use abortion as birth control. But they're not American women; they're women who live in countries where contraception is prohibited. 2. Women's fertility cycles/rates are not a mystery. Knowledge of fertility & some simple math tells us how many pregnancies a typical, sexually-active, non-contracepting woman will have in a lifetime. I didn't provide sources because I've provided them a million times already around here & you already have them anyway.

Obviously you don't know what the term means:

counterfactual [ˌkauntəˈfæktʃʊəl] Logic
adj
(Philosophy / Logic) expressing what has not happened but could, would, or might under differing conditions

This is by definition counterfactual. You can't know precisely how many women use abortion for birth control, let alone project the number of abortions the average woman "would have" if they did use abortion as birth control. There's tons of assumptions to come up with that counterfactual statistic.

You didn't provide a source for the amount of abortions a woman would have if it were the sole means of birth control until 45 because you most likely don't have one. You most likely made it up, or someone else did. If you do have a source, fair enough, prove it.

Typical vs perfect use is defined by consistent use or lack thereof (e.g. "in the month") and correct use or lack thereof. You're talking in circles.

Statistically speaking, your second stat doesn't indicate a damn thing except precisely what it says. Even if it provided the quantitative data you want so badly to see in it, there is no null against which to measure what even constitutes "a good portion".

Yes, I know what counterfactual means. Did you even read your own definition? Go back & read the part I underlined, and then read the part of my post that I underlined. Would it make you feel better if I rephrased it? WHEN women USE abortion as their form of birth control they TYPICALLY HAVE 30 abortions by the age of 45. Fact.

[_]

You two should really get a room.

Yeah, I'd love to see how anti-abortion he'd be if he knocked me up. He'd probably show up the next day with a coat hanger, pastic bag, & a trash can. (It really would be a good experiment though - but I wouldn't sacrifice myself for it.)

[_]

[GTFLYGIRL]

Wait... wait... wait... people on here are actually arguing in favor of this?

[GTFLYGIRL]

Seriously... to you - and gimmie... etc... Just looking through this CRAP... It's not even worth arguing with these people... SERIOUSLY. Let them spew their support of hateful anti-woman legislation elsewhere...

[USARAY]

Educating women who are contemplating abortion should be what we want to do
an educational mandatory movie to be viewed prior to the abortion
showing ultrasound images heartbeat
This brings the same thoughtful educated choice without being physically
invasive I don't know if they do this already
The probe thing is over the top to even allow government to mandate
It really assumes a woman is heartless when having an abortion
for most woman is extremely emotionally devastating

[inmytree]

[mikepegg44]

lol

[Jason P]

The bill has been abandoned in Virginia. You can all go back to your regularly scheduled raping ... I mean business .

http://news.yahoo.com/ridicule-helped-doom-va-ultrasound-130802643.html

[_]

The bill has been abandoned in Virginia. You can all go back to your regularly scheduled raping ... I mean business .

http://news.yahoo.com/ridicule-helped-doom-va-ultrasound-130802643.html

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the bill hasn't actually been abandoned; it's just been revised to say only abdominal ultrasounds are required, right? That's the last I heard anyway.

[gimmesometruth27]

Gimmie, in your rant full of derogatory remarks it interests me that you said you wouldn't have to "raise" the child as part of your reasoning that's woman be allowed to make that choice in a vacuum. Why is that? Pretty sure lots of dads raise their kids.

Not to answer for gimme, but I noticed that comment too & here's my experenced take on it: Sure, lots of dads "raise" her kids. But LOTS of dads don't. I mean lots & lots of dads. And dads just aren't held to the same level of responsibility for their children that moms are. Dads can very easily just walk away. But moms are much less likely to have that option, especially if the dad walked away first. So what he said is true: dads don't really have to raise their children.

yes i agree _ and that is what i was saying. any man can have sex with someone and get them pregnant. and how often does the man walk away from that kid and that woman? waaay more than the woman leaving the kid with the dad. so that is what was meant by my statement. i thought that that was epxressed clearly and could have been picked up in context....

[pjfan021]

Shoving an 8 inch wand into a woman's vagina when it is not medically necessary is wrong. Doctors already do this procedure when it's needed and that should be enough. Can't believe some of the disgusting assumptions people have made about women in this thread. Very sad

[Jason P]

The bill has been abandoned in Virginia. You can all go back to your regularly scheduled raping ... I mean business .

http://news.yahoo.com/ridicule-helped-doom-va-ultrasound-130802643.html

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the bill hasn't actually been abandoned; it's just been revised to say only abdominal ultrasounds are required, right? That's the last I heard anyway.

The article didn't mention that, but according to the Times Dispatch, yes the bill has just been amended. The state senate in Virginia did cancel a bill that would have given legal rights to fetuses.

But, at the very least, we can agree that the name of the thread now needs to be amended.