Screwed Up Education System

[Godfather.]

asdflkja;kd

In all professions, there's good and bad.

There's GOOD accountants who really do want to go the extra mile to save the client taxes, and BAD accountants who only want the fee and do only the minumum work necessary.

There's GOOD garbage collectors who will bend down and pick up that tomato-sauced wax paper from inside the pizza box that fell out, and BAD garbage collectors who hop right back on the truck leaving the tomato-sauced wax paper from inside the pizza box to blow around the neighborhood all day unitl Sparky the short-legged, steel-balled dog shreds it.

There's GOOD teachers who really have the students' learning & growth first & formost in their agenda and there's BAD teachers--you know, the meat grinders from The Wall.

just by your post alone I have to give teachers credit for choosing a job with those work conditions it's been a few years..30+ years but remember all the crap we put our teachers through and I remember a few grinders also but over all good teachers back then.

Godfather.

In the legal profession....
ok, well maybe not ALL professions have GOOD, but anyway,

I'd never want to be a teacher....

You have to perform almost every moment, every day
You have to deal with a classroom of children, preteens or teenagers
You have to face that same bunch everyday whether you like them or not
You have to pretend that you like some kids when you don't
You have to deal with each of their parents
You have to deal with each of the personalities and adjust to each of their learning styles.
There's no way that they could get adequately compensated for doing all that yucky stuff.

[cincybearcat]

1) You have to perform almost every moment, every day
2) You have to deal with a classroom of children, preteens or teenagers
3) You have to face that same bunch everyday whether you like them or not
4) You have to pretend that you like some kids when you don't
5) You have to deal with each of their parents
6) You have to deal with each of the personalities and adjust to each of their learning styles.
7) There's no way that they could get adequately compensated for doing all that yucky stuff.

I work in manufacturing.

1) Same in every job here. Teachers are not unique.
2) Sometimes dealing with "adults" is tougher. I'd say teachers are not entirely unique, depending on your job and how many people you have to interact with.
3) Teacher are not unique.
4) Teachers are not unique.
5) HERE is where teachers are fairly unique and is a BIG problem.
6) Teachers are not unique.
7) teachers are not unique.

1 out of 5 ain't bad.

[DangDang]

1) You have to perform almost every moment, every day
2) You have to deal with a classroom of children, preteens or teenagers
3) You have to face that same bunch everyday whether you like them or not
4) You have to pretend that you like some kids when you don't
5) You have to deal with each of their parents
6) You have to deal with each of the personalities and adjust to each of their learning styles.
7) There's no way that they could get adequately compensated for doing all that yucky stuff.

I work in manufacturing.

1) Same in every job here. Teachers are not unique.
2) Sometimes dealing with "adults" is tougher. I'd say teachers are not entirely unique, depending on your job and how many people you have to interact with.
3) Teacher are not unique.
4) Teachers are not unique.
5) HERE is where teachers are fairly unique and is a BIG problem.
6) Teachers are not unique.
7) teachers are not unique.

1 out of 5 ain't bad.

By "perform" I mean in front of an "audience" requiring forethought of the presentation/lesson plans. I don't mean "perfrom" as in "work".

"interact" with is not the same as being "100% in charge of 100% of the time".

Do you mean manufacture as in an assembly line? That's the same as being a teacher?
Maybe you're not kidding about the 1 out of 5?!?!

[haffajappa]

1) You have to perform almost every moment, every day
2) You have to deal with a classroom of children, preteens or teenagers
3) You have to face that same bunch everyday whether you like them or not
4) You have to pretend that you like some kids when you don't
5) You have to deal with each of their parents
6) You have to deal with each of the personalities and adjust to each of their learning styles.
7) There's no way that they could get adequately compensated for doing all that yucky stuff.

#5 might be the biggest deterrent for me..

[cincybearcat]

1) You have to perform almost every moment, every day
2) You have to deal with a classroom of children, preteens or teenagers
3) You have to face that same bunch everyday whether you like them or not
4) You have to pretend that you like some kids when you don't
5) You have to deal with each of their parents
6) You have to deal with each of the personalities and adjust to each of their learning styles.
7) There's no way that they could get adequately compensated for doing all that yucky stuff.

I work in manufacturing.

1) Same in every job here. Teachers are not unique.
2) Sometimes dealing with "adults" is tougher. I'd say teachers are not entirely unique, depending on your job and how many people you have to interact with.
3) Teacher are not unique.
4) Teachers are not unique.
5) HERE is where teachers are fairly unique and is a BIG problem.
6) Teachers are not unique.
7) teachers are not unique.

1 out of 5 ain't bad.

By "perform" I mean in front of an "audience" requiring forethought of the presentation/lesson plans. I don't mean "perfrom" as in "work".

"interact" with is not the same as being "100% in charge of 100% of the time".

Do you mean manufacture as in an assembly line? That's the same as being a teacher?
Maybe you're not kidding about the 1 out of 5?!?!

There are jobs where you are "performing" in front of an "audience" most of the day. And much requires planning. I think it is silly to think otherwise.

Being in charge...you don't think anyone runs a department of people all day long? 24 hours? Making decisions all day?

No, I'm talking about managers...heck, my job basically has me "teaching" most days and interacting with over 500 people throughout the year...just in my plant...not to mention those outside.

Anyhow, I think it is silly that people think Teachers have a much different job then some other do in other fields. The parent aspect is the 1 thing that separate them. And, I'm not sure if it's better dealing with kids or with adults....especially when you are tyring to get them to do something they don't like.

[cincybearcat]

Maybe you're not kidding about the 1 out of 5?!?!

Hahaha...I messed that up, meant 1 out of 7...but it was #5 that was different so got stuck in my head.

[_]

I'm sure there is a very blurred line and a large grey area, but you should be able to associate who is on which end of the spectrum... take for example (and i'm not trying to be biased) my mom: shows up to work 2 hours before to prepare, make worksheets, keeps her class interactive and always has the highest enrollment (she is an ESL teacher). Her coworker: brings an acoustic guitar to class and sings (this is her idea of teaching ESL)...

And one of the best teachers I ever had used to bring his acoustic guitar to class and sing (he taught English). I never came to class on time and didn't turn in half my work for that class, but I sure learned a lot about life - and about English - that has served me long after I forgot whatever the other teachers had to say. It's all very subjective and different teachers have huge positive impacts on people's lives in different ways, I think.

But isn't it saying something when there are only 4 people enrolled in her class?
This and she pretends to be "sick" to get months off to go to Europe. She goes on "stress leave" that magically falls during the summer (and this is a program funded by the government, so our tax dollars go to good use every summer to pay for her wages whiles shes off in Europe, plus the substitute teacher's wage) but you can't do anything because she's in the union. This literally happens EVERY summer.

I don't think having only 4 students NECESSARILY tells us she's a bad teacher. Also, I don't know enough about how her school's leave program works. If she's violating the rules, then obviously that's a problem. Is school year-round in Canada?

[_]

I never came to class on time and didn't turn in half my work for that class

Perhaps you shouldn't be condemning others for not valuing education.

Yet I still learned enough to score high enough on the AP English exam to get credit for all the required college English courses, which was kind of the purpose of the class. Regardless, I'm pretty sure I haven't condemned others for not valuing education. It's 7:30 AM that I don't value.

[_]

I don't know where you live, but where I live there are NO teachers that make six-figures. All teachers here make within 10K - 20K of each other, and it's not based on seniority, but on tier-level you aim for. With the budget crunch going on everywhere, what I see around here is a lot of ageism disguised as "I'm a good teacher and deserve to stay, while that old bat that has been here forever should go." Regardless of the fact that the old bat is a good teacher. But somehow they're not good because they're older. There are some bad teachers of all ages that should go, but just to categorically say that old teachers that have been showing up forever are bad--or to imply the same--is just another form of self-serving discrimination.

I am against seeing teachers "who are really good" at their jobs get extra pay until I see what "really good" means. If it means that you work at a cushy school where you have mostly upper middle class parents and kids that score really well on standardized tests, then you are really rewarding the laziest, although admittedly brightest and least masochistic teachers for being lazy and smart enough to know easy pickings when they see it. Am I a little jealous? Could be. I work in a poverty-ridden school that "never" makes the standardized tests. Rate of homework turn-in averaged 5 of 24 students all year despite varying motivational enticements. Parent night netted me those five parents. 95% of the kids are second-language learners. 50% of my class is made up of students not at this school 2 years ago. I once called a parent to say that their kid was not doing a science fair project and if they didn't do one, they'd fail in science. The parent's response? "I told my child they don't have to do anything they don't want to. I don't care if my child gets a zero. Got it?" Oh, yeah. I did. So, by many subjective measures my colleagues and I would appear to be very BAD teachers. One look at our standardize scores will "prove" it.

What's GOOD, though? The fact of the matter is I myself am not always a bad teacher. I teach summer school where all of my motivated students (nearly all) from around the city gained between one and two years in reading. Parents, some of them teachers themselves at the "best" schools in the city say that I am the BEST teacher their kid has ever had and shower me with gifts because their kids make such huge gains. I have to admit, I love being loved. I love being the best of teachers...I would love to get paid for being the best accordingly. I deserve it. I'm the best! I like touting that my students have made phenomenal advances in reading, if that's what I'm teaching. I'm the same teacher, but my location changes whether I'm the cream of the crop or the dregs of teaching. Among the very best teachers in the city and the very worst. That's me. I am one talented woman. Although, actually, what I do is roughly the same in both locations (I use a lot more ESL strategies with the ELL students, doh.) The difference I see between the two sets of students is not me...I'm the same person. What I see the difference as is parental involvement and motivation to see a student succeed. At the school where I'm fantastic, I'm fantastic because it's not all me. When the student goes home, the parent continues the learning day by working with the child to make certain, at the minimum, that homework is completed and often checked by an adult. In other words, teaching continues. Practice makes sure that learning gets into long-term memory for the student. At the school where I suck, when the student goes home, that is the end of the learning day. The child has only what they paid attention to in class. And tomorrow the student has only what he or she can remember of yesterday. Sometimes, that is almost nothing. Nothing plus nothing ... well, even a bad teacher can do that math--unless they are too old to, or too old and too drunk to, or too old and too busy groping to. Heck, all three. Fire the old teachers already! Old women are useless. Lose 'em.

So, when deciding who's good and who's a bad teacher, something very fair is going to have to happen. Teachers teaching at "easy" schools should not also be able to pick up on easy money, while teachers who are working much harder at the more challenging schools should not automatically be labeled as "bad" when students under-perform. As the best teacher in the city and the worst one, I do have something to contribute to the conversation and solution.

Btw, I'm not an "old teacher," nor am I a "new one." I'm somewhere in the middle. I've been teaching about 10 years. But I am a woman of the middle-aged variety who knows that someday, sooner rather than later, I'm going to be an old woman. And I know that when I get there, I'm a prime candidate for being written off, both literally and figuratively, no matter how vital I or my contributions may be. It really is stomach turning to me to hear what some of my younger colleagues have to say about the "old" teachers at our school...teachers who really are some of the true gems, but who are women who are old and therefore "worthless."

I would add that this attitude about teachers, especially older ones, being worthless is passed on to the students, who then treat their teachers and classes like they are worthless. My mom once had a student tell her, "Why should I listen to you? You're just a teacher; you haven't gotten anywhere in life and no one even respects you."

What grade level do you teach?

[_]

Anyhow, I think it is silly that people think Teachers have a much different job then some other do in other fields. The parent aspect is the 1 thing that separate them. And, I'm not sure if it's better dealing with kids or with adults....especially when you are tyring to get them to do something they don't like.

Whether or not teachers' jobs are "different" than other fields is irrelevant. (Though I'd have to say they generally are.) Teachers' jobs are more important than most other jobs.

[cincybearcat]

Anyhow, I think it is silly that people think Teachers have a much different job then some other do in other fields. The parent aspect is the 1 thing that separate them. And, I'm not sure if it's better dealing with kids or with adults....especially when you are tyring to get them to do something they don't like.

Whether or not teachers' jobs are "different" than other fields is irrelevant. (Though I'd have to say they generally are.) Teachers' jobs are more important than most other jobs.

I'd venture to guess that if we as a society valued Parenthood as much as we should, we wouldn't have to worry as much about "bad teachers" or under-valuing education.

Teachers certainly have an important job. It's nice that they get 1/4 of the year to unwind and get ready for another 3/4 year of work.

[haffajappa]

I don't think having only 4 students NECESSARILY tells us she's a bad teacher. Also, I don't know enough about how her school's leave program works. If she's violating the rules, then obviously that's a problem. Is school year-round in Canada?

No, basically my mom is an ESL teacher, she works for a school board but the program she's been doing for the last 4 or 5 years is funded by the government... basically it is a program that offers ESL courses to immigrants who couldn't otherwise afford to pay a private school. They make really decent money but their contracts outline they work all 4 seasons with 2 week breaks in between courses. So this teacher - instead of teaching elsewhere where she gets the summer off - stays in this program but suddenly gets "stressed" every summer, and goes on a 6 week vacation (paid for by the taxpayers, in a sense). With budget shortfalls rampant all over the province I don't think is really fair that she gets away with it but because she is in the union there's nothing they can do, even though everyone knows it happens.
Apparently the lady is a total bitch to everyone she works with as well ...some teachers won't even teach at the same school if they know she's working there.

[mikepegg44]

Teachers should be held to a higher standard than other professions because it is so hard for them to be fired for poor performance. I HAVE to be union employee and am disgusted by my co-workers on a daily basis. The union protects the poor performers much more than the positve hard working ones. Unfortunately for everyone that means bad teachers get to keep their jobs for quite a long time as long as they do the MINIMUM required not to get fired. That just seems wrong. They are public employees more or less and that gives the right to people to complain more than most other professions. I don't know of one profession I have had where I was not held accountable for my performance. If kids do great, then perfect the teacher gets rewards and accolades, but if the kids do poorly they talk about the underfunded schools and how hard their job is. Poor you. it is never the teachers fault. They should be held accountable for how their kids perform. I am not saying tie their pay to how their kids do as far as grades go, but there should be an improvement in every class room as far as testable knowledge. one kid can not care and screw off, but on average a whole class should improve or the teacher needs to change something up and be held accountable if that trend continues.

And what if the whole class is filled with kids who don't care and screw off?

it is the job of the teacher to not have that. Simple enough, if the kids don't care it is the job of the educators to reach out and grab them. You cannot get through life worrying about what ifs...Kids need tachers who won't let that stop them. If the people don't want to give that much effort they should choose a different profession.

[Your Mom Made Me Pancakes]

Collectively, you are all the posterchildren for what's wrong with America's education system.

[JonnyPistachio]

Collectively, you are all the posterchildren for what's wrong with America's education system.

Most, not all, people on this site are painfully biased and usually uneducated.

Sorry, but they are.

talk about biased..
I guess you're not out to make friends around here.