Screwed Up Education System

[cincybearcat]

For those of you talking about shitty teachers versus good teachers.... I'd like to know how you propose that we measure which teachers are shitty and which ones are good.

Also, I can't help but notice that there seems to be more talk about shitty teachers than most any other profession, which I think only serves to propagate the idea that it's the teachers' fault that our education system isn't better. Is this what you believe?

You'd like to know how to measure which teachers are good? Do you ask this of any other profession? Since I'm not in the education business (teacher or otherwise) I'll defer to someone who is, but I don't think it is any harder than any other profession.

There is more talk about shitty teachers because everyone comes in contact with teachers over a large portion of their lives. Do you spend that much time with lawyers? Accountants? Nope.

Also, are teachers exclusively union?

[_]

For those of you talking about shitty teachers versus good teachers.... I'd like to know how you propose that we measure which teachers are shitty and which ones are good.

Also, I can't help but notice that there seems to be more talk about shitty teachers than most any other profession, which I think only serves to propagate the idea that it's the teachers' fault that our education system isn't better. Is this what you believe?

You'd like to know how to measure which teachers are good? Do you ask this of any other profession? Since I'm not in the education business (teacher or otherwise) I'll defer to someone who is, but I don't think it is any harder than any other profession.

There is more talk about shitty teachers because everyone comes in contact with teachers over a large portion of their lives. Do you spend that much time with lawyers? Accountants? Nope.

Also, are teachers exclusively union?

If someone calls many people of another profession shitty at that profession, yes, I ask how they measure what it means to be shitty and what it means to be good. I do believe that if people are going to talk about shitty teachers (or shitty garbage men, or shitty lawyers, or whoever), then they should be able to explain what they mean by this. (I realize that you didn't exactly do this.) I think it probably is harder to determine how to measure good teachers than many other, more objective professions.

I'll point out that, although we don't always meet them in person, we spend many more years of our lives employing the services of trash collectors, mail carriers, physicians, etc. - and yet we don't hear half as much judgement about them, especially not as a group. We all know that the healthcare system in this country is probably in worse shape than the education system, yet the failure of the education system is blamed on teachers much more than the failure of the healthcare system is blamed on doctors (and you certainly wouldn't see all the healthcare providers in an entire system fired like happened in that one school system). But everyone's a fucking critic when it comes to teachers, and I think this is just another aspect of their undervaluation in this country.

No, teachers are not exclusively union.

[know1]

My degree is in education and I've taught and coached in high school. My mom was a teacher, my Dad's degee was in education and he's worked as a teacher, my sister-in-law is a teacher. Let's just say I have more than an outsider's view of education - at least in my area.

That being said, I personally believe our school systems are terrible and that there are likely more bad teachers and administrators than good ones. There are so many things that bother me about the state of education that I don't even know where to begin, but suffice it to say the school systems and many of the teachers are doing a large disservice to their students, society and tax paying citizens.

[Kel Varnsen]

For those of you talking about shitty teachers versus good teachers.... I'd like to know how you propose that we measure which teachers are shitty and which ones are good.

Considering that the original poster was named teacher of the year, there is obviously at least one way to measure which teachers are doing better. I am sure if you actually asked teachers they could think of tons more.

Also, I can't help but notice that there seems to be more talk about shitty teachers than most any other profession, which I think only serves to propagate the idea that it's the teachers' fault that our education system isn't better. Is this what you believe?

There are of course shitty people in every profession. Except most professions if you are bad at your job you don't get regular raises every year. In fact in most professions if you aren't very good at your job your employer has the option of canning your ass. With teachers as long as you have seniority, unless you do something really bad like beat or molest a kid, it is pretty hard to fire you. And not only that but if you are teaching the same grade year after year, once you develop a lesson plan you job gets easier (so essentially as your job gets easier you make more money).

[cincybearcat]

I'll point out that, although we don't always meet them in person, we spend many more years of our lives employing the services of trash collectors, mail carriers, physicians, etc. - and yet we don't hear half as much judgement about them, especially not as a group.

I think if you add up the actual time with these people, teachers are going to win hands down. And I don't think it's an indication of being undervalued at all. I think it's the fact that people value education so highly that leads them to criticize poor teachers. And my perception is that bad teachers are rarely fired due to poor performance, could be wrong. Seems like they only get fired for 1) molesting/hurting kids 2) budget cuts.

No, teachers are not exclusively union.

Thanks. Is it all public school teachers? Every teacher I've known has been in the union.

[mikepegg44]

For those of you talking about shitty teachers versus good teachers.... I'd like to know how you propose that we measure which teachers are shitty and which ones are good.

Also, I can't help but notice that there seems to be more talk about shitty teachers than most any other profession, which I think only serves to propagate the idea that it's the teachers' fault that our education system isn't better. Is this what you believe?

You'd like to know how to measure which teachers are good? Do you ask this of any other profession? Since I'm not in the education business (teacher or otherwise) I'll defer to someone who is, but I don't think it is any harder than any other profession.

There is more talk about shitty teachers because everyone comes in contact with teachers over a large portion of their lives. Do you spend that much time with lawyers? Accountants? Nope.

Also, are teachers exclusively union?

If someone calls many people of another profession shitty at that profession, yes, I ask how they measure what it means to be shitty and what it means to be good. I do believe that if people are going to talk about shitty teachers (or shitty garbage men, or shitty lawyers, or whoever), then they should be able to explain what they mean by this. (I realize that you didn't exactly do this.) I think it probably is harder to determine how to measure good teachers than many other, more objective professions.

I'll point out that, although we don't always meet them in person, we spend many more years of our lives employing the services of trash collectors, mail carriers, physicians, etc. - and yet we don't hear half as much judgement about them, especially not as a group. We all know that the healthcare system in this country is probably in worse shape than the education system, yet the failure of the education system is blamed on teachers much more than the failure of the healthcare system is blamed on doctors (and you certainly wouldn't see all the healthcare providers in an entire system fired like happened in that one school system). But everyone's a fucking critic when it comes to teachers, and I think this is just another aspect of their undervaluation in this country.

No, teachers are not exclusively union.

Teachers should be held to a higher standard than other professions because it is so hard for them to be fired for poor performance. I HAVE to be union employee and am disgusted by my co-workers on a daily basis. The union protects the poor performers much more than the positve hard working ones. Unfortunately for everyone that means bad teachers get to keep their jobs for quite a long time as long as they do the MINIMUM required not to get fired. That just seems wrong. They are public employees more or less and that gives the right to people to complain more than most other professions. I don't know of one profession I have had where I was not held accountable for my performance. If kids do great, then perfect the teacher gets rewards and accolades, but if the kids do poorly they talk about the underfunded schools and how hard their job is. Poor you. it is never the teachers fault. They should be held accountable for how their kids perform. I am not saying tie their pay to how their kids do as far as grades go, but there should be an improvement in every class room as far as testable knowledge. one kid can not care and screw off, but on average a whole class should improve or the teacher needs to change something up and be held accountable if that trend continues.

[SPEEDY MCCREADY]

We need a raise...
We need a raise......
We need a raise.........

Dont even get me started on my opinion of teachers.........

[eyedclaar]

An ignorant society is an apathetic society. This isn't an accident.

[mikepegg44]

An ignorant society is an apathetic society. This isn't an accident.

conspiracy?

[eyedclaar]

An ignorant society is an apathetic society. This isn't an accident.

conspiracy?

Na, that would imply it was some kind of secret.

[mikepegg44]

An ignorant society is an apathetic society. This isn't an accident.

conspiracy?

Na, that would imply it was some kind of secret.

so education is poor because the government wants to keep it that way to make sure that not all people participate in the gov't process?

got it,

why then do I hear how important it is to stay in school all the time? is that so if I do choose to stay in school they indoctrinate me with feelings of apathy? man they got this nailed...we should maybe tell someone about this and get things changed

[eyedclaar]

so education is poor because the government wants to keep it that way to make sure that not all people participate in the gov't process?

got it,

why then do I hear how important it is to stay in school all the time? is that so if I do choose to stay in school they indoctrinate me with feelings of apathy? man they got this nailed...we should maybe tell someone about this and get things changed

Yeah, you probably should, but I suspect you won't. Doesn't really matter though; nobody is listening. Idiocracy anyone?

Remember the new motto - Everything is alright with everything. Especially here in America!

[mikepegg44]

so education is poor because the government wants to keep it that way to make sure that not all people participate in the gov't process?

got it,

why then do I hear how important it is to stay in school all the time? is that so if I do choose to stay in school they indoctrinate me with feelings of apathy? man they got this nailed...we should maybe tell someone about this and get things changed

Yeah, you probably should, but I suspect you won't. Doesn't really matter though; nobody is listening. Idiocracy anyone?

Remember the new motto - Everything is alright with everything. Especially here in America!

why such a fatalistic view about their situation in life? is it because it is easier to blame outside sources for the ills of the world rather than look inward? this isn't a shot at you personally, but just a question. I just don't get that attitude. It is everywhere on the MT, people are dumb retards if they vote republican, and people are tree hugging hippies if they want to vote or support democratic ideals. my god it gets old.

sorry for the rant, anyway, schools both bad and worse..got it, anyone got a piece of shit they can throw in my cereal?

[eyedclaar]

so education is poor because the government wants to keep it that way to make sure that not all people participate in the gov't process?

got it,

why then do I hear how important it is to stay in school all the time? is that so if I do choose to stay in school they indoctrinate me with feelings of apathy? man they got this nailed...we should maybe tell someone about this and get things changed

Yeah, you probably should, but I suspect you won't. Doesn't really matter though; nobody is listening. Idiocracy anyone?

Remember the new motto - Everything is alright with everything. Especially here in America!

why such a fatalistic view about their situation in life? is it because it is easier to blame outside sources for the ills of the world rather than look inward? this isn't a shot at you personally, but just a question. I just don't get that attitude. It is everywhere on the MT, people are dumb retards if they vote republican, and people are tree hugging hippies if they want to vote or support democratic ideals. my god it gets old.

sorry for the rant, anyway, schools both bad and worse..got it, anyone got a piece of shit they can throw in my cereal?

I'm really more of a heavily armed militant minded hippy, but if you've found some hope out there on the horizon, throw it my way. I'll take all I can find.

[mikepegg44]

I'm really more of a heavily armed militant minded hippy, but if you've found some hope out there on the horizon, throw it my way. I'll take all I can find.

well this may not be the kind you were looking for, but it makes me smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItZyaOlr ... re=popular